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Discussion: Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary

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Anonymous		 Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary
Feb 28 2008, 1:58 AM EST
Simple. Government sets up a law thus:

1) No new vehicle sold in Australia may emit carbon dioxide / monoxide / any greenhouse gas (excepting water vapour). This law comes into being in 2016, thus giving the car manufacturers time to come up with clean cars.

2) No electricity generator must emit carbon dioxide / monoxide / any greenhouse gas (excepting water vapour). This law comes into being in 2020, giving electricity providers until then to shut down CO2 producing coal-fired power stations.

In both of these cases, the government simply lays down the law and gives ample time for the market to respond to the new rules. 32  out of 46 found this valuable. Do you?    

Anonymous		 RE: Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary
Feb 28 2008, 1:59 AM EST
BTW - this is who I am:

http://one-salient-oversight.blogspot.com/ 4  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    

Anonymous		 RE: Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary
Feb 28 2008, 8:52 AM EST
This is a good idea in theory. But the problem is, if 2020 comes around and there's STILL no truly viable alternative to coal power (and by "viable" I mean can produce the same or more power in the same space and won't cost the national debt per plant), then you're suggesting cutting Australia's power supply off, throwing us back in the Dark Ages. Fact is, until such time as such a safe, clean, and feasible alternative power source is created and tested, setting up such laws to cut coal power at a certain date is dangerous and stupid. Sure, it might speed up development somewhat (as people panic and rush in the attempt to save the power supply), but it doesn't guarantee an alternative before the cut-off, and even if one is made, it may have been so rushed in its development that it could for instance wipe out thousands of people and cause half the population of Australia to be horribly mutated.

I do however like the car idea. This proposal doesn't ban cars currently on the road, but does make car manufacturers produce clean cars, meaning civilisation as we know it won't collapse as in the above scenario. 4  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    

Anonymous		 RE: Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary
Feb 29 2008, 6:17 AM EST
This policy is an extreme form of cap and trade or quota based system. With the cap being set at zero. It is reckless in the extreme and it would ultimately fail because somebody would get voted in to circumvent the stupidity of it. It presumes that command and control actually works. If this approached did actually work we could just say that cars are banned from 2020 and sit back comfortable in the knowledge that somebody will invent teleportation. If we must do something about CO2e emissions then a tax on emissions is far more responsible than any quota approach. A tax provides a predicatable framework for current alternatives and existing drawing board alternatives. And it wouldn't create a problem vastly bigger than the one it seeks to cure. 4  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    
Randall_Berger
Randall_Berger		 RE: Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary
Feb 29 2008, 5:50 PM EST
And if they are able to scrub the carbon from the exhaust of coal fired plants?

As I understand it, the algae experiment at Hazelton power station in Victoria has been a huge success in showing how "passing" the gas through algae removes most of the carbon. They eat it!

The algae grow, are harvested and turned into oil (for biodiesel), carbohydrates (ethanol) and protein, which can be fed to stock.

I read that this process works and can be only two years away.


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Randall_Berger
Randall_Berger		 RE: Zero carbon from electricity & transport - no subsidies necessary
Mar 2 2008, 4:37 AM EST
"Simple. Government sets up a law thus:

1) No new vehicle sold in Australia may emit carbon dioxide / monoxide / any greenhouse gas (excepting water vapour). This law comes into being in 2016, thus giving the car manufacturers time to come up with clean cars.

2) No electricity generator must emit carbon dioxide / monoxide / any greenhouse gas (excepting water vapour). This law comes into being in 2020, giving electricity providers until then to shut down CO2 producing coal-fired power stations.

In both of these cases, the government simply lays down the law and gives ample time for the market to respond to the new rules."

OK, How about "No new vehicle sold in Australia emits NEW carbon" ... if we produce E100 and B100 vehicles that use 100% farm grown plant fuels from Australian farmers ... similar to in Brazil and parts of the US ... these vehicles would in essence be "carbon neutral" .... emitting carbon that has already been absorbed by a plant.

If the emissions from coal fired plants are bubbled through algae farms nearby ... growing algae in waste water with the plant exhaust pumped through it ... we can also run cars on the results of this ... scrubbing the majority of coal carbon emissions and using the by products.

The hard California laws for zero emission vehicles came back and bit them on the arse .... as you can see in WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR? ... but I think we can reach the same result by aiming for carbon balance or neutrality ... and all of the technology is real.

The hydrogen car, however ... or fuel cell car ... that was put up as the slayer of the electric car ... is incredibly energy intensive ... hydrogen may be plentiful, but it takes a lot of energy to crack ... I'd rather see the return off the electric car, even from cleaner coal fired plants.

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